“Feminists about the war” is a series of informal feminist talks. First-hand testimonies and thoughts of women active in civic activism before and during the full-scale Russia’s invasion are equally important as reports about political decisions.
How does it feel to fight at the cultural battlefront under shellings? Where should we search for feminist activism in stand-up comedy? Why are Ukrainian women considering military nationalist feminism?
In this material, you can read the conversation in text format. Also, you can watch the podcast with English subtitles on our YouTube
Discussing it in the third episode of the podcast ‘Feminists about the war’. ‘Feminists about the war’ is a series of informal feminist talks. First-hand testimonies and thoughts of women active in civic activism before and during the full-scale Russia’s invasion are equally important as reports about political decisions.
In the third episode:
Nastya Zukhvala — feminist, stand-up comedian, and head of the project ‘Zukhvalyi battalion’;
Anya Cochegura — feminist, stand-up comedian;
Iryna Gil — feminist, stand-up comedian.
The conversation was recorded in July 2022.
‘I’m a russophobe since 5 a.m., February 24’
Nastya: Introducing ourselves will be awkward, considering the fact that we know each other like the back of our hands.
Iryna: Who are we? We are affiliated with the Ukrainian stand-up comedy scene. I am Iryna Gil, this is Nastya Zukhvala, and here is Anya Cochegura.
Nastya: It resembles a meeting of Feminist Comedians Anonymous.
So, my name is Nastya Zukhvala, I am a stand-up comedian, a feminist, and head of the media, Instagram page ‘Zukhvalyi battalion’.
I am also a russophobe. It is not that I was always wired this way — I first felt it at 5 a.m. on February 24.
According to the audience feedback and the reactions I am getting, I am now known as Nastya aka “the one that said ‘bloody_fucking_russians’ Zukhvala. That’s how people recognise me these days.
Anna: And I am Anna Cochegura, I am a stand-up comedian as well, and I’ve been engaged in stand-up for almost 5 years.
What do you need to know about me? I am a feminist, a russophobe, and that’s it, I don’t know… Actually, I am a perfectly ordinary person, it’s just that I have a job — I go on stage, I crack jokes.
Iryna: As you might have guessed from the topic of this stream, I am also a stand-up comedian, a feminist, a russophobe. But for me, it probably went like this: I was a feminist first, a russophobe… When it comes to these things, I am quite experienced.
And the last item on the list would be stand-up comedian, as I’ve been actually doing stand-up for a little over a year.
Nastya: It’s interesting to discuss that timeline of ours: I was a comedian first, and then I became a feminist… And, to my utter shame, the level of my Russophobia began to rise…
Iryna: And for me, it was also the other way round: at first I was a russophobe, next I became a feminist, and only then, a stand-up comedian. I was an ardent russophobe since Maidan.
Actually, for the past eight years, there were times when I didn’t feel comfortable enough to confess that I was a russophobe. And now I live in the perfect world, because everybody hates russians the same way I hated them for the past eight years.
For all this time I really haven’t watched anything, haven’t listened to anything, but I was… If only you knew how many times I had to answer the question: єHey, don’t you watch Yuriy Dud?є
Nastya: It is not russophobic, it’s the appropriate reaction to the stimulus, with said stimulus being the full-scale invasion in your country. The level of consciousness has risen over the past few months.
‘Hating Russians gives you wings’
Iryna: Let’s describe our daily routine and performances BEFORE the full-scale invasion and AFTER its beginning. What changed for you?
I will be the first one, because the changes I experienced were probably more drastic compared to yours. I am not in Kyiv anymore, and I haven’t had any performances since the beginning of the full-scale invasion.
Besides hearing the air-raid alerts, I was also alert and anxiety-ridden, thinking that I may not have the chance to do stand-up comedy anymore. Thinking that I would be forgotten, I don’t know, that I would be out of Kyiv for a while, and then no one would invite me anymore. It’s all still true.
Before the full-scale invasion, our routines were quite similar, I guess: we could have at least 5-7 weekly performances, on Friday, Saturday, Sunday we were busy — in the evening after our side hustles and projects. And in the evening we had one more proper job. For Christ’s sake, second shift, like they say.
For me, everything has changed, as I moved to another Ukrainian city. My stand-up career switched to online format: I am talking about Twitter, live streams… I am painfully aware of it.
That is probably the worst thing that Russians should be held accountable for — we no longer feel safe in our own homes.
Nastya: But it will get better. When you have your first performance you will realize that it’s like riding a bike – you will never forget it.
Iryna: Yeah, they’re gonna smash my face on stage, as if I fell from the bike, and then I will remember how to pedal, I get it.
Nastya: If someone dared it, we would turn it into a marvelous PR campaign, you know it, right…
I also spent the first 2,5 months of war out of Kyiv, I also didn’t have a chance to perform, and… I don’t know, I guess it wasn’t my priority for a time. It’s not that I lamented over lost opportunities in stand-up comedy. Back then I was completely exhausted, I had two or three live streams per day.
I can’t say much has changed when I came back to Kyiv, but that was one of the most productive periods of my life. Stand-up set I am now doing on tour — I can’t say how much time it took to write it, but it happened really fast. It’s some kind of bundle you brought along.
Iryna: We need to make an ad campaign for Red Bull. ‘Hating Russians gives you wings’.
Nastya: Yeah, right. In no way is my set perfect, I know it, and I wish I had the energy to make it better. But this anger… It seems like I have no other coping mechanisms but stand-up comedy. When I came back it felt like I finally let it all out, I got rid of this devil.
And now I do a lot of stand-up, I am currently on tour, I perform more than ever in my life. My previous tours were sporadic and short, and now it… You just live that way: you get back to Kyiv for a few days, and then you leave again.
And then you open the map: were there any missile attacks in the places you’ve already visited or not?
Iryna: People need to understand the anger they are feeling. To laugh it all out, to let it out — and the tool you give them is probably really useful.
They are like: ‘Well. OK, everyone feels terrible, and here comes Nastya, screaming from the stage. We are home, then, we are feeling the same’.
Nastya: Yeah, I think that my performance is useful precisely because of this consolidation. I need it, and people that come need it as well – and we are in the cathartic state that helps us to let our anger out together.
We are angry and we want to express it.
Obviously, if before February 24 someone asked me can I imagine myself wanting someone dead, wishing to eliminate a certain group of people – that would sound insane, I would believe it.
Now, however — yeah, that’s me… Nice to meet you.
‘Ukrainians are really uncomfortable victims in the information space’
Iryna: Anya, do you wish death on a certain group of people? It’s obviously a rhetorical question.
Anna: Yeah, and my wish is strong. Moreover, I also want to contribute to it in some way. I think that stand-up comedy is more than a way to explore the world, it’s the way your brain works. Even though you don’t perform now, you are still a stand-up comedian. You still think up new jokes, you look at something and think: ‘Now, that is ridiculous’. At least that’s how it works for me.
When it all began, I spent the first week reading the news and being afraid – and that was it. I didn’t think about my future, I didn’t think I had to do anything… I spent two weeks like that, and then I returned to work — I also have a day job. Little by little, it helped me to get back to the routine.
I had my first performance about a month after the beginning of the full-scale invasion. We were in a bunker. I was asked if I wanted to perform, we were raising funds for the Armed Forces. And I was like: sure, I want to help out in any way, even if we collect three hryvnias, it will be great. That was what brought me to action, and not my desire to perform.
Frankly, I didn’t even know if I could joke. I had serious doubts about it, as I myself found few reasons to laugh. When I had my first performance, I felt that two lives of mine collided, and I didn’t realize how it all works. I mean, I performed well, I wrote the text quickly, and that’s the way I write, because any emotion is energy, and you have to let it out, and then you (sit down to write it) and: ‘I hate Russians’.
Iryna: I don’t know why, I don’t know how to explain it… Maybe on the seventh to tenth day I began to write the jokes in English, then I thought I needed to… well, I have certain experience with the anglophone space.
I think you know it, I delved into it quickly… And I began writing jokes in English — in my head, I thought that I would have an opportunity to use them in order to show how ridiculous it all is.
I wanted to share my jokes I wrote in English so much, like ‘Ukrainians are the best nation for the worst times’, and I also came up with some analogy…
Nastya: So what’s wrong? I still don’t get it. Why didn’t we record it?
Anna: Why don’t we record it? Everyone is making records now, just yesterday we organized a stand-up performance in English, and we recorded it.
Iryna: What a digitalized nation we are! Since the very first days, we were like: ‘We create the content everywhere’.
Which is actually really commendable. I think that it is through our efforts, when 24/7 we are literally screaming online that we hold the attention of the world, we influence it greatly.
Regarding this, Ukrainians are really uncomfortable victims in the information space. That is probably what our national activism looks like – and that is difficult to explain to a. say, random German.
Why are we doing things like that — I don’t know how to explain it yet.
About the fatalism that keeps us determined, or the perfect time is now
Nastya: There is fatalism that keeps us determined. Before the full-scale invasion, if I wanted to do something I first needed to go through the nine circles of Hell, to analyze everything. Now, however, it has changed for me.
I think that I may not have other chances to do it. If not now, then when? I want this to become our corrective experience. I want us to understand that every action has its reaction.
And now we all learn not to wait for the perfect time and understand that the perfect time is right now. Unfortunately, it is Putin’s warhead that produces such changes.
It could change us, our environment, and our country, if only we could… keep this approach.
‘Man will be punished for laughing at women’s jokes’
Iryna: Let’s move on to the next question. Women’s self-sufficiency is usually one of the problems from the growth area. And I want to ask if we have some thought, insights, and jokes that will be understood by other feminists. And how do we feel when we joke about something hetero men won’t understand? What do we feel when we refrain from such jokes?
Nastya: Well, firstly… I don’t know how you write, but my rules go like this: I don’t joke about something, I don’t mention particular problems without providing context. It is like my technical task. Say, I am going to discuss some feminist problem.
Technical task: I am targeting the sexists. I am like: ‘There is a sexist sitting in the audience, I have to make him understand’.
It is not that I always succeed, but first you set the standards, and then you try to approach them in some way, to crawl towards them at least. So it is not that I make jokes that only other feminists will understand — no, I don’t do in onboard.
But that’s how it works in our inner circle: we get together to sneer and scoff discussing how stand-up comedy is built like yet another patriarchal system.
Yeah, that’s true. On the other hand, it is not that I am stopped by the presence of hetero men or stand-up comedians, if these identities are combined in one person. Maybe it’s my goal or aspiration not to refrain from something I want to tell, as my inner circle, men included, will respond adequately, it won’t be a problem.
However, when I feel that someone won’t like it — you do realize that it’s a challenge for me, right?
Anna: I don’t know if there are any jokes that won’t be understood by straight men. They may not want to understand it — that’s another thing, but not getting the jokes…
Naturally, I have dozens of jokes and bits told, well… from a woman’s perspective. From what I am seeing. For instance, about reproductive coercion. I also have the whole block about women’s topics being ‘not it’, and if we take ‘it’, then men won’t get it at all.
It is not my intention to offend someone, I simply want to share my experience, coming from my point of view. If there are men in the audience, I want them to listen. If they are ready to comprehend it — it’s great, if not — it is even better.
It is always hilarious to see what can offend men.
Not because I want to offend them, but because when something offends you, it shows what’s inside you. Stand-up comedians don’t want to offend their audience.
But some time ago I had that one old bit about men always saying ‘you need my money’. And they are always the men that get 2 thousands less than the average salary — so, what do I need this money for? Paying for utilities? One guy I knew came to me, genuinely worried, and he was like: ‘I find it really frustrating, it was offensive. I earn money, and I consider it my male merit’. I understood that for him, it has to be a sensitive topic.
When I am talking about tampons — I get different reactions, there were men that went like: ‘How dare you?! Did she just say the word ‘tampon’ from the stage? That’s preposterous! It’s not real!’.
The taboo-nature of the topic is what worries me — it is a great part of women’s experience. It’s what happens to us every month. And do we have to keep silent about these 5-7 days of our lives?
Iryna: Throughout her whole life, a woman spends up to 7 years menstruating. 7 years is like a graduate school, can you imagine? It is your physiology, and you can’t tell about 7 years of your life.
Anna: I never chose any particular audience to work for, but oftentimes I see that there are women who respond more or give warmer feedback. Probably it is because women express their emotions better, as patriarchy takes its toll on everyone. Not only are the women its victims, men are also prohibited to express their emotions.
Iryna: If a man laughed at the stand-up performance – that’s his fault.
Anna: Yeah, he is going to be punished for laughing at women’s jokes. Or if he will write that you made a good joke — that’s his fault again.
Patriarchy prohibits them from being anyone else other than tough rock.
‘It nettles that men’s experiences are deemed universal’
Iryna: Anya says that she doesn’t make jokes to offend someone, and I can’t agree. I want to say that I write my jokes with the sole purpose to offend someone.
Earlier I received some kind of feedback after my performances, but it happened in a controlled environment of sorts. After creating my solo performance, however, I got an exclusive source of feedback that I can’t control at all.
I can control the content, choosing the best moments and working with the time codes… But I have zero control over how it will be received. And so I read 1000 comments. It honestly feels like anthropological research. Speaking of statistics, 90% of comments are positive, and it is great for my self-esteem, it helps me a lot.
Then I turn to the 10 other percents, and 90% of them are made by men. And you think: ‘What’s wrong? What happened?’ And you begin reading these comments.
Anya is right, they focus on one joke that they can relate to, and then they take this joke…
In the beginning of my performance, I also made a joke about broke men. ‘Why do women even date penniless men? — Because they are telling jokes’. And there was a whole batch of comments that went like: ‘Oh, now we get it, you only want money’.
And I’m like: did you listen to me at all? The punchline showed that even without money, you can enjoy great success with women — if you will learn how to crack a good joke.
No matter how accepting the audience, no matter how hard they laugh, even on my solo performances, even if there are people that enjoy all the jokes… When I began telling the setup of the joke about menstruation in the church, I heard the sound of silence.
Anna: Sometimes it really pisses me off that male comedians might go on stage to tell the most disgusting things.
About their physiology, their lives, their beliefs. But when you come on stage and say that once a month you bleed, they are like…
Iryna: I just remembered that one of the first stand-up performances I visited for the purpose of networking… The comedian we all know had a bit about how he underwent the collection of the swab. 20 minutes of bit about the swab and how it was collected: all the feelings, all the procedures, all the mechanics.
And then I come and tell: ‘And I have a yeast infection’. And everyone is like in that one meme (shows). And that is such a discrepancy: it feels like that stand-up club will annihilate, were you to say certain words in the mic — which is fascinating.
I also have this thing that I want to take an analogy and reduce it to an absurdity. To take the ordinary situation, to twist it and show it how absurd it is. And even then people don’t get it, I mean like I have a joke when I say that ‘harassment is when a man is ugly’.
I then proceed by saying: ‘Guys, why do you provoke us to file complaints by the way you look?’. That directly mirrors the phrase ‘Why do you provoke violence by the way you look?’ — and there were so many people that didn’t get it.
Nastya: Obviously, I don’t like it when the audience doesn’t get my jokes. But the biggest success is when the stand-up performance generates an argument.
When people in the smoking room are quarreling — that means that the concert… that its educational part went well.
And I also feel that men’s experiences are deemed universal. No matter how many jokes about wanking, urethral swabs, visiting a proctologist would be made… It’s OK, because it is a man who tells them.
And women’s comedy is deemed something specific.
You don’t even have to make jokes about menstruation, even though it’s my favorite topic. I have dozens of period jokes. I think that more jokes may be written only about childbirth. But I haven’t given birth yet, so…
I think that we really have to fight and stop people when they try to marginalize women’s experiences. That’s why I always get furious when I see ‘stand-up for girls’. What happens?! We are equal members of society! We are no different from you.
Iryna: Getting back to our russophobia: I remember when the clubs organized ‘Ukrainian stand-up comedy nights’ and presented it as their achievement. For me, it was really peculiar. What do you mean you organize ‘Ukrainian’, fucking, ‘stand-up comedy nights’? And you are also proud of the fact that all your comedians speak Ukrainian.
Nastya: No wonder, considering the level of Kyiv’s russification. Even now, to say the least, it doesn’t strike me as highly Ukrainised.
‘Women’s contribution to the fight is obviou’
Iryna: What expectations and warnings regarding the achievements of the democratic society and, in particular, feminist movement, BEFORE and AFTER the full-scale war do we have?
For me, the achievements of the feminist movement come so easy. For three years we promoted the usage of the gender-specific female nouns, and now it took 2 weeks or, say, 2 months, — and now we say both ‘male defenders’ and ‘female defenders’.
We began using gender-specific female nouns.
Nastya: We ratified the Istanbul Convention! – Yeah-yeah-yeah.
Iryna: We lobbied for its ratification on the protests for several years. These are the notable achievements.
And now when the General Staff tweets about ‘our boys’ it doesn’t feel right, and I am like: ‘No-no-no’. I personally know some of the girls that are there – they are tactical medicine providers, they are in the fight support companies…
Of course, the percentage of boys is higher. But you can’t simply erase a group that big. After WWII, we already erased the contribution of the Soviet women.
And now we are like… Now we simply can’t allow it, we have all the chances to avoid all these imbalances and erasures of experiences, because we all can access the information.
We can share someone’s experiences by making a thread on Twitter, a post on Facebook, and we have more critical lenses for our analysis. What do you think?
Nastya: Well, that is really a massive precedent.
Women’s contribution to the fight is obvious. It is obvious on the battlefront, in the volunteer movements, among doctors, literally everywhere.
And I think that the whole society will be a bit changed. It is not that I think that tomorrow everyone will wake up completely changed. Now we see what we need to see — the whole pallette, completely diverse people.
Women taking on different roles: they act heroically, they also have families. The same is true for men: some of them act heroically, while some try to cross the border hidden in the baby boxes… And these are existing realities. We encounter different experiences, opposite experiences. And I really want everyone to notice it.
Anyway, I think that women’s contribution, women’s experience in this war is a strong case. That contribution is so vivid, so significant, that every woman can correct someone who speaks about “boys and defenders”.
Iryna: I recall in 2017 or in 2018 men and women in the military were given equal rights. Only then did women that fought on the battlefront stop getting employment records telling that they were cooks or dealt with deskwork. There were the previous precedents and, thank God, we don’t have to deal with this anymore.
I agree with Nastya that it would be great to maintain the momentum. Now we see things that can’t be erased, ignored.
Nastya: Even if someone tries to do it, we will have all the proof, all the precedents, all opportunities to resist.
Anna: I also agree that there are valuable achievements that we cannot but celebrate: we have waited for the ratification of the Istanbul convention for 11 years.
As for the women in the Armed Forces, I saw the figure of 37 thousands women serving in the military. It is not half, but nevertheless, a large number. These women defend our country just like men do, in different positions.
We are people that perform publicly and deliver certain messages, if in comedic form, and it is our responsibility to help people to keep it in mind. It is our kind of social work. No matter how small the audience, I am still responsible.
‘Anya worries about the periods’
Anna: I also wanted to say that after the victory we’ll have plenty of work, a great deal of work: we will need to ensure that there will be no backsliding. For instance, there is a recent initiative to sew military uniforms for women in the Armed Forces, though it seemed logical for such an initiative to emerge much earlier.
Iryna: Up until February 24 women bought everything themselves, lingerie included.
Nastya: They couldn’t stop cringing because of high heels, remember? On the parade. And then it turned out they have no uniforms. He-llo?
Anna: And once again, God, that live stream will be called ‘Anya worries about the periods’.
When I discussed it with a certain man responded: ‘What’s the point? Uniform is universal, OK, it’s a bit wider, and what do you want, slim-fit?’. And I say: ‘There are no women’s pants, try sticking a pad on men’s pants. Do you think that there are no periods at the battlefront?’
Precisely due to the fact that main discourse centered men’s experiences, These details that may seem neglectable but in reality are an important part of the women’s experience — they get swept under the rug.
It is not that people do it on purpose, it simply wasn’t on the surface, and they don’t get that these are necessary things. Uniforms should be comfortable.
A person of any sex, of any gender, is experiencing great stress and risk – and comfort is a top priority, because any distracting factor may become life-threatening.
The last few years brought immense changes. But I am still like: we need to keep abreast, we need to be wary, we have lots of work to do, now it’s not the time to relax.
Ukrainian militarized national-feminism
Nastya: I also wanted to bring another point about feminist movement. I don’t know if you were as disappointed as I was, or you were already aware…
But for me… I clearly know that Ukrainian feminism needs to be completely independent. We don’t need to draw on the expertise of Western or, God forbid, Russian feminism.
Because the reactions and the activities I saw… obviously, there were not the thoughts of every Western feminist, but the overall message we got tells me that the ideas I learned from Western feminism are not applicable to our reality.
And maybe they weren’t applicable in the peacetime as well — it is just particularly evident now. And another point. This ideology is no longer an authority to me, because the majority of declared values were betrayed — and I consider it immoral and hypocritical.
These notorious cases of the feminist community that we heard about. At first, the whole rhetoric focused on blaming the victims. And I think that it’s a total disgrace — for a feminist, for a person that understands such mechanisms well…
But the rhetorics of the letter I am talking about and of other messages as well — it went like this… NATO was called an instigator, then they addressed Ukraine, asking ‘Why don’t you give up?’. And now I have questions to the humanism itself. The very idea of giving up territories…
Territory is not a burned ground, occupied territory — there are people that are held captive.
I think that if you sign and, moreover, write a letter to some high-ranking official… You need to look into the situation first, and only then you can express your ‘particularly valuable opinion’. But it didn’t happen: they didn’t feel empathy toward women, toward us, Ukrainians, Ukrainian women in particular.
It is not sisterhood, it is hypocritical shit.
Secondly, facts weren’t analyzed, and all we got were baseless accusations: ‘If you arm Ukraine, Nazis from regiment Azov will get the weapons…’ That is good old Russian propaganda. And it rather perceives us as some kind of minor problem.
On one hand, it shows that all of these people treat the situation in an immature way. In no way is it a ‘Ukrainian crisis’, it’s a situation that endangers all the world’s safety.
For me as a feminist, that victimblaming is quite telling. Feminist that victimblames is no longer an authority for me.
On the other hand, all these talks about pacifism are also really telling. I didn’t think about this before, and now it is obvious.
You can be a pacifist when you live in a country with the strongest army in the world. That’s why I unironically say that now I have to identify as a Ukrainian feminist, and not a feminist in general.
I don’t want to associate myself with these disgraceful deeds. And I think that Ukrainian feminism needs to go through some kind of the ideological work — we can’t look immature. There are important things for us to do — militarization of women, increasing the level of our safety, learning tactical medicine, improving the fighting abilities of women and keeping it equal to men’s.
They are serious and realistic things. And we really can do this under these extreme conditions, we can search for the solutions and look for the ideological basis to make our feminism more solid.
Iryna: National-feminism, militarized.
Nastya: Yeah, militarized national-feminism, amazing.
Anna: This letter was like a smack in the face. It was like asking the victim: ‘What were you wearing?’.
‘Why do you have so many territories, Ukraine, huh? Why do you seduce Russia with your territories?’.
Iryna: ‘Why do you tempt Russia with your waste heaps?’.
Anna: ‘You sowed your wheat and are swaggering around… You grew so many watermelons and are now swinging them’.
That is literally the same, contexts are different, but the mechanism works the same way: the victim is guilty of being attacked, and the victim themselves has to stop the attack. Even though it is logical to stop the assaulter.
Nastya: I didn’t see anyone condemning the aggressor, and there are more disgraceful acts committed by Western feminists.
Ukraine and Ukrainian women are literally erased from this discussion…
Iryna: Even though that, the feminist slogan is ‘Nothing about us without us’. Girls!
Why are there so many Europeans that don’t understand why we don’t give our territories away? Because they never had to give up their own territories.
They had colonialism: France, Spain, Germany… They are the former metropolises that lived off their colonies. Not only that, but they owe their economic prosperity to their colonies whose resources they were sucking for centuries. And that is definitely a one-sided relationship: colonies don’t flourish under colonial regimes.
These are the countries that didn’t have to fight. We are proud of being Ukrainians because it’s a bloody wonder that we survived! After centuries of repressions.
Not only is each one of us a jackpot in the genetic lottery, Each one of us is like: ‘You don’t understand how unlikely it was for us to survive’. And how many obstacles we faced on the way — of course I am proud to be Ukrainian.
Of course, I’m going to shout from the rooftops that my nation is so cool — simply because it’s reactive nationalism. It’s not that we simply decided, ‘oh, we are the best’. We endured so much. And all these feminists are not even taking this into account.
Anna: That letter erases all the Ukrainian experiences and tells us what we should do.
But if you’re not there, maybe, consider not telling us what we should do. The missiles hit our houses, and I will lay down the arms and wait?
Nastya: Anya, don’t forget another point they are making: you perceive the situation from the inside, and you take it personally.
You took it to heart, the fact that you can literally die at any given moment.
Iryna: Just imagine: you analyze the situation, and you’re also on your period – you can’t make decisions at all!
Anna: What do we have here — there are philosophers and politologists that came to our meeting!
Nastya: Global roadmap of Ukrainian nationalist military feminism!
Iryna: That’s… I propose to bring our meeting to an end. We are Anya Cochegura, Nastya Zukhvala and me, Iryna Gil.
Thank you for listening to our conversation, I hope you have someone to discuss it with during the smoking break.
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